Sayers and stories

[marycrawford]

I recently fell down a Wikipedia hole, and one of the shiny bits of treasure I dug up was this letter from Dorothy L. Sayers, about her book Murder Must Advertise:

The new book is nearly done. I hate it because it isn't the one I wanted to write, but I had to shove it in because I couldn't get the technical dope on The Nine Tailors in time. Still, you never know what people will fancy, do you? It...deals with the dope-traffic, which is fashionable at the moment, but I don't feel that this part is very convincing, as I can't say "I know dope". Not one of my best efforts.

I mean. Wow. First of all, it is one of her best efforts--it's easily my favorite, even though yes, she's right, the dope-traffic stuff is the part I usually skip. The book is half pulp novel and half advertising agency comedy, and the latter half is pure gold. I could read a whole series set in the agency, with all its petty drama and delightful characters.

But second of all--she wrote this letter to her publisher. "Hi, here's my book, I hate it".

OH DLS, I lo-five you across time, because that feels very familiar, even if I'm just working on a long-ass fanfic. Once it's done I will get the urge to hurl it to a beta reader with some uncomplimentary words about it, as if that would entice anyone into reading, and seeing DLS do the same thing makes me feel better.

I was talking to sakana17 about some favorite tropes, like character X transforming into a monster and character Y immediately recognizing them anyway (sigh!) and she wrote me this delicious bonbon:

The Monster Who Came Back (3652 words) by sakana17
Fandom: 镇魂 | Guardian (TV 2018)
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan
Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Character Transformation, Fix-It of Sorts
Summary:

"Shen Wei?" Zhao Yunlan said as he looked into the large, troubled, teary eyes of the man he loved.

'I hurt him,' he thought. 'I was the one who broke his heart.' What could he say now?

Comments

[nnozomi]

Oh, that letter is great! I feel like she must have enjoyed writing the ad-agency parts more than she suggests, because they're so detailed (in characterization as well) and so true to life.
I could read a whole series set in the agency, with all its petty drama and delightful characters.
Me too! Imagine a whole series starring Miss Meteyard and Mr. Ingleby. "Courses of the world, please, not curses." And Peter's wholehearted irritation about having to put away his brilliant advertising idea for a moment and go back to detecting, and the office boys' back and forth, and the amazing tension of the cricket match.

and seeing DLS do the same thing makes me feel better.
Yes indeed, oh dear. (Also, imagine DLS in fandom...).

[marycrawford]

Yeah, the ad agency parts are just so vibrant and frothy, I think she must have had a ball with them. Or I hope so, anyway. And part of my wiki deep dive was about Ingleby! A friend and I were wondering about his homelife, which led to the discovery that DLS might have based his character on her IRL ad agency colleague Bobby Bevan. (And then I spent ages reading up on the menage-a-trois he had with his wife and Randolph Churchill - whose wiki entry is a delight, if you want to read about a total scumbag who deserved everything Noel Coward and Evelyn Waugh could insult him with...)

Imagine a whole series starring Miss Meteyard and Mr. Ingleby.
Yessss, I would love a series starring them, it would be so much fun. <3 And that cricket match is a literary triumph, and just so satisfying even if you don't care for cricket whatsoever.

I think DLS was in fandom, as a Baker Street Irregular and all, and writing Sherlock Holmes fanfic at least once, but I know what you mean. I would have loved to see her talk about fic, sigh.

[marycrawford]

PS: I am now consumed by the idea of Miss Meteyard and Mr Ingleby starting their own ad agency, but then they keep running into murders and solving them by accident, and now they're an ad and crime agency, whoops?

[dorinda]

Oh god I would read THE HELL out of this.

[marycrawford]

I WOULD TOO. Someone should write it and deliver it to me, with a nice bow tied around? Anyone but, oh, Jill Paton Walsh. :koff:

[elenothar]

That... really is very relatable of her. I struggle with it more where my original fiction is concerned, but I've also written plenty of fic that I stared at so long that it became absolute gobbledygook in my head and a kindly beta needed to rescue me. In fact, the current chaptered Guardian fix it I'm failing to actually write probably falls in that category because I've been fighting with chapter 1 for weeks and have basically decided that actually trying to write something with plot was my first mistake. Should've just stuck with the trope that started it XD

[marycrawford]

have basically decided that actually trying to write something with plot was my first mistake. Should've just stuck with the trope that started it XD

Oh no, are you me? I have SO MUCH sympathy for this issue. I mean, I was going to write a nice frothy AU of maybe 5k, and then plot happened and now it's just ballooning. Plot is SO HARD and yet I really want to get better at making it happen, so I am resolved to keep going. I hope you can find/dig/fight your way out!

[elenothar]

I started out with 'hey, I kinda want to write a weilan accidental marriage AU' and now it's suddenly the large canon divergent fix-it that everyone in this fandom seems to write at some point and I'm all ???. To be fair, I do want to tell that story so I suspect I'll stick with it, but it's going to take ages, no doubt. And I realised the canon divergence means I have to deal with Ye Zun in some form, which I have, uh, conflicting feelings about let's say.

It really doesn't help that anything I write ends up at least twice as long as I intended it to be. Quick 1k oneshot? 5k. Mid-length 5k romp? 10k. Etc. Works like a charm (sigh).

I'm glad you're resolved, though, because I'm sure I'll love reading whatever comes out at the end as I've loved everything else you've written. So if you ever need someone to motivate you by shouting loudly about how much they love your fic, I happily volunteer!

[marycrawford]

I started out with 'hey, I kinda want to write a weilan accidental marriage AU' and now it's suddenly the large canon divergent fix-it that everyone in this fandom seems to write at some point and I'm all ???

Ooooo DO IT DO IT! I love an accidental marriage and I love a fix-it, especially in this fandom, and I'm basically cheering you on with both fists, as it were. \o/

I know what you mean about having to deal with Ye Zun, but otoh: it's your story, you can do whatever you want! (This is what I keep having to tell myself, ha.)

So if you ever need someone to motivate you by shouting loudly about how much they love your fic, I happily volunteer!

That is so sweet of you and heck yes it's motivational, and I appreciate it. It helps a lot to counteract the 'nobody will want this' brain weasel chorus.

[elenothar]

It's a loud and annoying chorus that lives in all our brains and I'm always ready to throw down with it on someone else's behalf. Less so mine, which is why you cheering me on is also very much appreciated <3

Current Ye Zun thought: I could just... leave him in the pillar to be dealt with at a nebulous future point that won't actually feature in this story...

The joys of early canon divergence - if I'm committing to changing things, I might as well really commit. It does feel a bit like cheating though, which is not at all a rational response but still happening in my brain nonetheless.

(Who doesn't love a fix-it in this fandom? I've never been in one that needed one so damn badly.)

[marycrawford]

Stupid weasels, I swear, why are they so convincing and numerous? I stomp on 'em, at least the ones that belong to other people's heads. :D

Current Ye Zun thought: I could just... leave him in the pillar to be dealt with at a nebulous future point that won't actually feature in this story...

Heyyyy there you go! Totally valid solution, and will settle anyone's need to know what's going on with him.

It does feel a bit like cheating though, which is not at all a rational response but still happening in my brain nonetheless.

Aw, yeah, sympathies. I've been talking to friends about the need to provide plot reasons and explanations for everything, and how freeing it can be to just throw that need overboard and get to the good stuff faster. But it's hard!

[elenothar]

I think part of my problem with the plot reasons/explanations in this fic is that it's a fix-it (and not just the post-canon I'ma ignore canon but don't explain anything kind), so I feel like it should all hold together well and explain All The Things and so on. Conveniently forgetting that when I read fix-it fic I don't look for any of those things and just want the characters to be recognisably the ones I love.

... Honestly, the good stuff in this one isn't even the fix-it, it's the 'oops we just got married? Featuring Shen Wei feeling equally over the moon and guilty, and Zhao Yunlan having a minor meltdown because he's not having a meltdown about sudden Committment' and subsequent shenanigans. Clearly.

[marycrawford]

Conveniently forgetting that when I read fix-it fic I don't look for any of those things and just want the characters to be recognisably the ones I love.

☝☝☝ listen to your reader voice, they know what's up! (I feel like a fraud saying that to you, because I have the exact same problem, but I figure as long as we say it to each other, maybe some of it will start sticking?) I feel the exact same way, as a reader all I want is the heart of the story, not the bones.

... Honestly, the good stuff in this one isn't even the fix-it, it's the 'oops we just got married? Featuring Shen Wei feeling equally over the moon and guilty, and Zhao Yunlan having a minor meltdown because he's not having a meltdown about sudden Committment' and subsequent shenanigans. Clearly.

LOVE IT. That sounds great - you've got the emotional throughline/payoff that will be so satisfying. And if a fixit happens along the side, it can be lightly sketched in as needed, too.

[elenothar]

*points finger at sensible thoughts* STICK (please)

And if a fixit happens along the side, it can be lightly sketched in as needed, too.

I just need to keep my brain in check. It likes doing that thing where I have a plan and then once I start writing all these extra things start popping up and insisting to be written...

Thanks for the encouragement!

[clevermanka]

I love how casual conversations with fandom friends can end up with such delightful gifts. I have this one in my Marked for Later collection, now!

[marycrawford]

Yes, this is such a wonderful side of fandom! I love getting a surprise story, what a treat.

I have this one in my Marked for Later collection, now!

\o/

[marthawells]

It's actually really common to want to tell your editor how terrible your book is, or to apologize for it, when you hand it in. I think it's that by the time you finish a story you've been working on really hard, especially anything that's long and complicated, you've lost the ability to evaluate it. I have too much memory of what crap parts of it were before I fixed them and how long it took to figure out. I'm looking at scenes and seeing all the past versions of them and all the work it took to get there, while the editor is only seeing the most recent version, without all the baggage, and can see it only needs minor tweaks.

[marycrawford]

I think it's that by the time you finish a story you've been working on really hard, especially anything that's long and complicated, you've lost the ability to evaluate it.

Ahh that makes so much sense - you can see all the history, and the editor can't, they see what's actually there. I hope your editor is good at pointing out just how great what's there really is!

[trobadora]

I think it's that by the time you finish a story you've been working on really hard, especially anything that's long and complicated, you've lost the ability to evaluate it.

This, exactly. By the time I'm finished writing I can no longer tell the difference between what's in my head and what's actually on the page. Thank god for betas and editors.

[trobadora]

But second of all--she wrote this letter to her publisher. "Hi, here's my book, I hate it".

Haha, right? So relatable, and I say similar things to my betas all the time. Good to know we're in such good company!

It's a great letter; thank you so much for sharing.

[marycrawford]

You're so welcome! I love finding quotes like this that can jump across time and space.