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marycrawfordI have watched all but the four last episodes of Guardian. I HAVE MANY THOUGHTS.
The one that is uppermost in my mind right now, though: Zhu Yilong had better have gotten paid A FORTUNE for his work on this show. Fucking hell.
The one that is uppermost in my mind right now, though: Zhu Yilong had better have gotten paid A FORTUNE for his work on this show. Fucking hell.
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Date: 2019-09-08 07:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-09-08 08:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-09-08 08:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-09-08 08:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-09-09 08:31 pm (UTC)I kind of lose it when Zhao Yunlan says that! OMG! And Shen Wei is *right there* with him. ❤️❤️❤️
I thought we got a tiny reaction shot but maybe not... but Shen Wei’s faaaaace throughout the speech is just... ❤️
I loooove that scene!
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Date: 2019-09-08 07:51 pm (UTC)(I've at least managed to shake the urge to watch Border Town Prodigal, in which he's devastatingly gorgeous but which apparently has nothing else going for it, by having learned that someone else voices his character in that. I'm adjusting to the recent knowledge that that's common in c-dramas, but since I'm used to his actual voice thanks to Guardian, I think hearing someone else's voice come out of his face would be too Uncanny Valley for me.)
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Date: 2019-09-08 08:05 pm (UTC)I really hope that Guardian's popularity helps him out, to get where he wants to go, whatever that is. Even if he only played Shen Wei he would deserve epic amounts of money and prestige for the micro-expressive acting, but daaaaaaaang.
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Date: 2019-09-08 09:02 pm (UTC)I don't really understand the dubbing thing in any kind of detail, having only found out about it recently through a couple of Twitter discussions, and I especially don't have any real sense of how it's decided on. The way it came up in the first conversation I saw was that someone mentioned how the actors who voice the characters in the animated version of The Untamed also all voice the characters in the live-action version of the series (I haven't seen the former, but am watching the latter), which is a neat bit of performance continuity, but also utterly WTF??? if you don't already know that dubbing by different actors is common. O_O
Apparently most dramas do all of the final dialogue recording in ADR after shooting the footage, which can mean having the on-screen actors record their own roles or bringing other people in. (And in cases like Guardian, with its nonexistent budget and last-minute changes, sometimes weirdness happens towards the end of production if they can't get the actual actor in for last-minute stuff or don't want to bother for one line or something; it explains why in Guardian there are a bunch of lines scattered here and there where the voice changes abruptly and then back.)
What I've heard is that it's more common for dubbing-by-someone else to happen with inexperienced on-screen actors (which is evidently why the main cast for The Untamed, who're mostly quite young, were all on board with being voiced by other people) or in historical dramas. I'm told that Zhu Yilong and Bai Yu both have more than one show in their credits where they've been dubbed by other actors; I was relieved to hear that they do both use their own voices in Guardian and are probably more and more likely to get to do so since they're both pretty well known now. (And since of their respective other shows the one I most want to see is Detective L, I was glad to hear that Bai Yu does his own voice there too. But that's post-Guardian, so that fits the "better known now" dynamic.)
I gather it all also has something to do with the sheer complexity of Mandarin being the official language while not everyone necessarily speaks Mandarin fluently (also why so many c-dramas are hard-subbed in Chinese right out of the gate) or is able to hide their accent from their actual home language, so if actors don't necessarily all speak the same first language or what have you, having them dubbed by other people standardizes it. But the political elements and and implications bundled up in there are way beyond my understanding of the situation.
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Date: 2019-09-09 08:11 am (UTC)I did notice the weird looped dialogue in Guardian where they didn't have the right actor. Thanks for your explanation on this whole situation - it's fascinating. I didn't realize that the Mandarin issue was why there were hard subs, I wondered about that.
But...did they record all the final dialogue for the main actors for Guardian in ADR, too? Or was that at least shot mostly live? It doesn't FEEL like it was recorded in ADR but maybe I just can't tell. I would be heartbroken to find out that they weren't using their own voices, so at least we got that.
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Date: 2019-09-10 12:21 am (UTC)The funniest thing (because you have to laugh or cry) in the Guardian ADR, to me, is how "Dixing" thuds into so many of the lines like a stone because it got changed so late in the game. (I believe the situation was that they thought they'd be able to get away with calling it "hell", as in the novel, or something like it? And then no. So that one word just gets dubbed in aggressively all over the place. ^^;)
AFAIK Guardian's audio is entirely post-shooting ADR, which goes to show just how much experience the industry has with it, because it's so close to seamless; I had absolutely no idea when I was first watching it, and now that I know, I still usually can't actually tell when I'm rewatching.
I think I might literally have cried if I'd found out that their of the leads weren't using their own voices, and am not entirely sure why my reaction is so strong. (I've mostly adjusted to the idea that some of the supporting cast have different voices/on-screen actors.)
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Date: 2019-09-11 11:04 am (UTC)I did see the livestream, thanks for the link! I have huge conflicted feelings about this kind of thing, because they are adorable and sweet and their interactions are great, and every cringy dumb question they have to answer or skit they have to perform makes me want to jump in front of a train. The second-hand embarrassment is too much. I thought US celebrity interviews were terrible, but this is worse? How even is that possible? They're fantastic actors who clearly put a ton of effort into their craft, can you not leave them a little dignity and maybe ask them something about their actual work??!
Er. Sorry for that outburst. I will also admit that Youtube pushed another clip at me that I have watched A LOT, that is just Zhu Yilong and Bai Yu trying out the weight machines on the SID set, which very nicely proves which of them has actual muscle instead of just swagger. :D
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Date: 2019-09-11 03:13 pm (UTC)Someone was also saying that the dubbing practice is self-reinforcing, because if all of the actors know they're just gonna be dubbed over (whether by themselves or someone else), they're not so focused on little things like enunciation and volume, so of course then they have to dub.
The embarrassment parts of the Chinese promo work hit me hard too; I don't usually watch those bits. ^^;
I do like the much-discussion progression of Guardian promo stuff, in that Zhu Yilong is/was known for being kinda stiff and not great at/comfortable with interviews (he seems to genuinely think he's extremely boring, and also average-looking and not especially talented, and I'm sure [I hope] that at least some of it is conscious humbleness, but it has a tang of realness to it and makes me sad) and Bai Yu is so gregarious and engaged and apparently made a bit of a project of coaxing ZYL more out of his shell and helping him get more comfortable.
My one consolation about all the embarrassing parts of the promo stuff is that at least it's standard enough that no one's being singled out and picked on, AFAIK, but yeah. It's very uncomfortable. I hope at least some of the actors who go through that gauntlet find it amusing, since the fans evidently do. :/
My favorite thing is their Dixing song on Happy Camp; if you haven't seen it, I gather that they wrote the lyrics themselves, and it's delightful. The full Happy Camp appearance, OTOH, is another round of ridiculous games and cringe, so I haven't watched it all the way through. I also have to mentally tune out all of the backup dancers and stuff, TBH, but the actual song makes me happy.
(There's also a behind-the-scenes video of them rehearsing the song + some backstage + after-show stuff, much of which is charming, and an official video for the song that's extremely spoilery for the series, IIRC.)
The weight-machines thing is a delight. *^^* I haven't seen it subtitled, but IIRC what Bai Yu is saying afterwards is something like "You're so handsome and so strong! How am I supposed to live in this world now?"
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Date: 2019-09-11 04:14 pm (UTC)I'm so glad you understand about the embarrassment problem I have with the Chinese promos - I didn't want to be like "thanks for the link, I hate it" :D - and I will check out the Dixing song, I haven't seen it. Thanks for spoiler-checking too! Sounds like I should check out the official video and behind the scenes stuff later.
The idea that Zhu Yilong is not comfortable with interviews, yeah, I bet that's mostly real. The way he clutches pillows and waits for Bai Yu to prompt him looks very un-acted, as it were. (And I feel for him because OMG, if it were me I would hide in a dressing room and never come out.)
I am waiting for my friend to get back from a road trip to watch the last four episodes, and in the meantime I am WRITING FIC. \o/ Also I'm really enjoying this convo, thanks a lot!
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Date: 2019-09-11 10:58 pm (UTC)I'm so glad you understand about the embarrassment problem I have with the Chinese promos - I didn't want to be like "thanks for the link, I hate it" :D
Understandable, but it'd also be totally fair--nothing works for everyone! If I ever rec something at you or relay something and it's not to your taste for whatever reason, I won't be wounded or offended or anything. ^_^
The way he clutches pillows and waits for Bai Yu to prompt him looks very un-acted, as it were.
People half-joke (fondly) about him needing his emotional-support Bai Yu.
(I'm not personally into RPF, but watching the two of them, I think I feel more strongly about a friendship between strangers than I ever have in my life. I just think about the weirdnesses and pressures of their industry and how genuinely comfortable and fond they seem together, and I hope that they really do have as strong a friendship as it appears. It'd be precious enough for anyone, but in that kind of work it seems like it'd be absolutely priceless. So I hope, knowing that I'll obviously never know one way or the other.)
Eeeee, fic-writing! That makes me so happy. *^^*
Also I'm really enjoying this convo, thanks a lot!
Aw, yay! ^_^ (I tend to get caught up very easily in excited geek-babble, so I'm always a little worried that I'm dragging conversations out longer than someone would necessarily like, especially when I don't know them well. [Hi, anxiety!] So I'm glad to hear that.)
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Date: 2019-09-12 03:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-09-14 05:57 pm (UTC)Still four eps to go, possibly that will happen next weekend, and then I can read all the fanfic and watch all the things!
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Date: 2019-09-15 08:35 pm (UTC)Fingers crossed!
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Date: 2019-09-16 12:45 am (UTC)...or as bb!Shen Wei, or as Ye Zun, which you should have seen by now? I love how Ye-Zun-dressed-as-Shen-Wei is completely recognizable from Shen Wei himself, to the point that I forget that Ye Zun is the same actor and not just a guy who happens to look really similar...
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Date: 2019-09-16 08:42 am (UTC)And yeah, same here, I fell first and foremost for Zhu Yilong, especially once I realized he was also the BCE (I am not ... fast at these things? And then when we got to Ye Zun I was like "this can't be him too, right, am I crazy, or...") And Ye Zun is just a whole 'nother level of amazing. I agree, I LEGIT forget that in the fight scenes, it's the same guy on both ends?
I saw a pic somewhere of the other actor, and ofc that doesn't show the actor's range or anything, but MAN. I can't imagine anyone else either.
That said though: I can't imagine that he would have this amazing screen chemistry with anyone other than Bai Yu, either. The SFX may be terrible but the casting just elevates the show to enormous heights.
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Date: 2019-09-16 09:21 am (UTC)And oh, yes -- Zhu Yilong is my special obsession but Bai Yu is absolutely as integral to their chemistry, and his performance is a match to Zhu Yilong's throughout. I think they elevated each other, even (Zhu Yilong is great in everything I've seen him in, but Shen Wei just has so many layers! He's always experiencing like at least three strong emotions at any given time, and you can see all of them in his face even when he's always trying to hide all of them, too...)
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Date: 2019-09-16 11:33 am (UTC)Yes, me too! IIRC that was the super hot closeup scene where he's mending those scratches on his shoulder with dark energy, and the first time I watched that, I didn't realize that was even the same guy as Professor Shen aka Glasses McPretty. But when I saw it on a rewatch, I finally twigged.