marycrawford | The Name Game, or, Mary gets her rant on

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hercules: the legendary journeys

The Name Game, or, Mary gets her rant on

Is anyone else driven to distraction by persistently misspelled names in fanfic? (OK, that was a rhetorical question. :-)

I get especially fed up in Hercules: the Legendary Journeys, because half the names are mythological. Sure, the characters aren't always congruent with their mythological versions, but can we keep the names the same? Please? No need for a script to verify the spelling, all that's needed is a quick web search or a mythological dictionary.

Or a Handy Hint from Heloise, even:

Hercules' wife is Deianeira. Not Deineira or Deaneira or whatever.

Hercules' mother is Alcmene, or Alkmene if you want to be Greek about it. Not Alcemene, even though some of the actors pronounce it that way. (I think they had trouble with the 'km' sound.)

And for Zeus's sake, 'Thermopylae' is the name of a very famous battle, as well as one of Hercules' and Iolaus' signature moves. That's what's so neat about the name - it implies that this was something they first tried during that battle. Therefore, please don't spell it 'Thermopoly' or any variation thereof. That's a type of glass fiber.

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Don't let me start with that!

It doesn't help that I'm Greek. I tend to notice those things. And more. It can be really annoying sometimes.

Kisses, Zoe

Hey Zoe,

Please do start with that and tell us about the 'more'! :-)

Mary, fond of rants

Well it's not just names. Some times I see Greek towns turned into rivers or mountains or I don't know. It's weird. I mean they can easily check a map. Greece isn't that big.

Hey, it's a handy way to screen your reading material. If you see Iolaus spelled "iolus" in the summary, you know you don't even need to bother to skim the story!

You are aware the Herakles' nephew would have pronounced his name eye-oh-LAY-us, in four syllables with the accent on the second to last, NOT EEE-o-lus with three syllables and the accent on the first.

Of course, to be completely accurate, we need to use a different alphabet entirely. ';-]

Amorette

Hmm. The weird thing is that at school, we pronounced it Ee-oh-LAH-us. Yet another variation. Zoe, how about it? How would you say it?

That was one of the things I liked in your singer-of-Apollo fic - that Iolaus hardly recognizes his name because the singer uses a 'weird' pronunciation of it. And then he goes 'well, it fits better into the metre that way', heh.

And yes, don't get me started on 'Iolus' fics. (Bangs head against wall).

Actually in in Greek it's Ιόλαος.

Ee-oh-LAH-us

That's correct.

I went by Edward Tripp's pronunciation guide (all writers of Hercverse stories should have a copy of "The Meridian Handbook of Classical Mythology." A quick look at all the myths complete with the occasional snarky remark.) Mr. Tripp says short i short o accent on l with long a schwa es. In Amurican, I would say i-aw-LAY-is, sort of. Hard to explain without phonetic marking and/or SOUND. At any rate. EEE-o-lus is WRONG.

But then again, Iolaus was Herakles' nephew and the son of Iphicles and Automedusa. (How's that for a great name?) And Herakles was a bisexual, cross-dressing drunkard with a bad temper and questionable hygience habits.

In my head, EEElous is the blonde guy played by Micheal Hurst and ioLAus is the character in myth.

You've read my singer story?!?!? Wow! Yes, I tossed in the name thing just to prove I was well-eddicated enough to know it. Heheheheh.

Amorette

Is it me, or does Automedusa sound like someone who gets stung in the head by her own snakes?

Your Handbook sounds right up my alley. I'll look for it, next time I'm bookshopping.

You've read my singer story?!?!? Wow!

Yup. Brother Ghost is still my favorite of your longer stories, but I like the two original characters in this one, as well as Iolaus' voice. And I feel more than a little guilty that I never sent you email to tell you so. :-(

Heheh. Stung in the head by her own snakes. Snort. The book is out of print but I got it used for under ten bucks. Very handy reference.

I was going to say, thanks for you kind words on. . .and realized I can't remember the name of the "singer" story or the name of the singer! Yikes. I've written too many things, I guess. . .

Amorette

Ooh! Nitpicking. I love nitpicking. Some scientists propose that human beings developed so early hominids could rid themselves of fleas and lice, so you could say that we are all *born* to nitpick. So.

Having browsed mythological websites a lot (as can be inferred from my lj username) I get the impression the greeks didn't exactly have standardised spelling...

Also, the nitpicky geek next to me wishes me to relate that Thermopylae is actually the name of a mountain pass --named for the hotsprings there, hence the name 'pillars of fire'-- where the famous battle *of* Thermopylae took place.

"Nitpicking" really is much more polite than the Dutch term, isn't it? ;-)

Having browsed mythological websites a lot (as can be inferred from my lj username) I get the impression the greeks didn't exactly have standardised spelling...

I dunno. Is it the greeks who didn't have standardized spelling, or is it that we spell their names differently according to which language we're spelling in? (I.e. 'Hercules' versus 'Herakles' or 'Hercule')

Thermopylae: hey, cool. I didn't know about the meaning of the name. (I knew it was a mountain pass, yeah, but I figured the battle makes more sense in this context. Bit like Agincourt - everyone knows the battle, rather than the village.)

(deleted comment)

What, 'muggeziften'? It just means 'sifting gnats/musquitos'. ;)

(For our Dutch-challenged friends, yes, I can probably think of another word that's less, uhm, politically correct. In fact, some speculation as to the sexual attractiveness of Hymenoptera specifically the subcategory of Formicidae to one's discussion partner is involved. Alternatively there are insinuations about people's sexual behaviour towards a certain punctuation mark.)

Is it the greeks who didn't have standardized spelling, or is it that we spell their names differently according to which language we're spelling in? (I.e. 'Hercules' versus 'Herakles' or 'Hercule')

As far as I know, both. After all, which Greeks are we talking about specifically? Considering the geographical *and* chronological spread, there's quite a lot to choose from, even if we leave linear-A out of the equation. The myths themselves weren't standardised either, there's lots of different versions.

Bit like Agincourt - everyone knows the battle, rather than the village.)

Right, and the battle of Britain, everyone's heard of that, but who even remembers where... Oh. Wait. ;)

You might know this, but I'm just geeking out: Thermopylae was a mountain pass where an army of three hundred heavy troops, assisted by five thousand six hundred light infantery, could hold back an army of ten million. And did. The Spartans held back Emperor Xerxes' fucking *huge* army back for a week, allowing the entire population of Athens to evacuate to the island Salamis. Note: Sparta and Athens did not get along, they'd been at war constantly before Xerxes showed up. Yet one of the two kings of Sparta (Leonidas) sacrificed himself and his best troops at Thermopylae so Athens might live. Athens massed their fleet in front of Salamis and they destroyed Xerxes' (much bigger) fleet. It helped that Xerxes' ships were to big to maneuovre in the narrow strait of Salamis, while the Athenians were zipping around in their lighter and smaller and much faster vessels. Without his fleet Xerxes couldn't hold Greece, and that's why Greece didn't become just another province in the Persian empire. This is also the reason Alexander (the Great) invaded Persia. He didn't want Xerxes' descendents to try again.

Interesting detail: Before the invasion the oracle of Delphi had prophesied that Athens would only be safe behind walls of wood. This is pretty much spot on if you consider that the stone city walls didn't hold Xerxes' army back for more than a couple of hours. The wall of ships, on the other hand, saved them.

Okay, I'm done now. :)

Anyone posting here is absolutely welcome to get their geek on. Feel free!

I love history buffs. Me, I'm a history buff wannabe. I think I knew most of that, but I'd have to look up the details. It's cool to be able to just lay it out like that. And I don't think I heard of the prophecy before. Gotta love those prophecies - they're always spot-on but completely useless until after the fact, when you go "Oh, so that's what the oracle meant!"

In fact, some speculation as to the sexual attractiveness of Hymenoptera specifically the subcategory of Formicidae to one's discussion partner is involved.

/snickers/

Yes, that's the one I was thinking of. Albeit not in those erudite terms. :-)

I think I knew most of that, but I'd have to look up the details. It's cool to be able to just lay it out like that.

It helps that there were two of us geeking together, but we should have looked up the details too. It was three million troops, not ten million. Still a staggering amount (more than the entire population of the Greek peninsula and it's colonies (like Sicily) at that time), but a different number.

Gah! Just noticed mistake I made! This bit makes no sense:

human beings developed so early hominids could

It should read:

human beings developed opposable thumbs so early hominids could rid themselves of fleas and lice

Grrr. Okay, fixed now.

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The Name Game, or, Mary gets her rant on

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Correction.

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